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Richie Brown Show
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Richie Brown: So, welcome Roman to the Richie Brown Show. Today we’re going to be going through your book “Dissolving Illusions.” It’s an excellent book. Thank you. I couldn’t put it down when I got hold of it. Particularly given our recent events, I think it’s an interesting one because you wrote it in what, 2015, wasn’t it?
Roman: Uh, 2013, it came out.
Richie Brown: I had worked on it on and off for 15 years, and then Suzanne and I worked on it together for four years. So yeah, it’s a while ago. And I imagine for the sales at that period maybe…
Roman: Well, yeah, when I published it, uh, we had a party at my previous residence, and, you know, it was a small group of people, and I was just happy to be done with the project. And uh, it was something I just felt I had to do. So we published it, and I thought, okay, I’m done with this whole vaccine topic. And you know, we’ll sell a couple hundred books in the end. But since we published, it’s been a slow and steady kind of increase. So you know, over those 10 years, uh, it just was always going out a bit, a bit, a bit, and people, you know, bought it and read it, and it’s kind of just spread organically. We never really advertised. Suzanne went around and she was on the back bus and did some interviews and things like that, but you know, it was basically organic. I think people would buy it, read it, and tell their friends, and it just slowly spread around and now it’s kind of gone off the rails. So it’s quite popular now.
Richie Brown: Yeah, I saw Suzanne on Joe Rogan, and yeah, quite a breakthrough for you guys there.
Roman: Yeah, yeah. She’s an amazing woman, and uh, really brilliant, and she sacrificed her whole career to do this because she felt it was the right thing to do, not because she was going to make oodles of money. As a matter of fact, her high six-figure salary went down to like 10% of that. And uh, she had a real rough time. You know, if you go to these Quackbuster sites, they’re like, oh, she became a homeopath and became rich. Well, none of that’s true. But uh, you know, she’s just an amazing lady, and I’m honored to have run across her path. So smart, honest, hardworking, non-compromising. You know, she says it like it is. So she can’t be bought.
Richie Brown: Exactly. Yeah, that’s a common theme in your book, isn’t it, with doctors getting their careers destroyed for going against the inoculation?
Roman: Sure, yeah. Right from the beginning, when they started doing this, if you went against the grain, against the majority, you were basically usually just ignored. Uh, you just didn’t want to do that because you lost your finances because you were getting paid good money to vaccinate. This is like during the 1800s. Um, and then you would be called a crank, which is the equivalent of antivaxer today. And so you lost everything if you went against it. And so anybody that did really kind of suffered. And uh, because it was a very profitable, uh, societal-wide belief in doing this. And uh, you know, you had to kind of really want to stand up and tell the truth. And what’s interesting is it started almost right away when they started coming out with this idea. Jenner in 1798, and it really took off by the year 1800. And there were peoples in 1805, um, and 1810, all the way through the 1800s that wrote books on how the vaccine was not working, how it could kill you. And uh, but they still kept it going. And then this instituted laws, uh, put them in place in 1840, 1853, and then they had a harsher law in 1867. In that law, you had to get your child vaccinated by three months of age. And it’s not the vaccine that you might think it was. It wasn’t this hypodermic needle being injected. They would take a sharp instrument called a lancet, which is just a sharp knife, and you would cut yourself repeatedly, and they would take this mystery goo and smear it into your arm. And that’s what a vaccine was. And you would go through the vaccine disease, and sometimes it was quite harsh. Sometimes you didn’t survive. Sometimes you would get this scarification which, if everything went right, you would get these like five scars which would prove that you were vaccinated. So that was your original vaccination card. And then, uh, if it went wrong, you could get a big sore, it would open up, and uh, you know, it was quite dreadful. Some people died horrible deaths. Uh, not to mention it was tied to tuberculosis and many other diseases too. As you might imagine, if you take some kind of material with pus and bacteria and funguses and you smear it into somebody’s bloodstream, well, it’s probably not going to do too well. So, um, yeah, in your book, you’ve got many examples of them doing that and then spreading the disease itself.
Roman: Yeah, you know, if you’re going to take this stuff, which was originally called cow poxing, but it wasn’t. Jenner really thought it was from a horse. So he thought it was from this disease called the grease on horse’s legs, which got transferred to somebody’s hands, and they got it onto a cow. But they also used goats. In India, they used buffalo; they used donkeys and mules, any of these kinds of animals that they could create these little pustules. And they would take that stuff and put it on somebody’s arm. And then they used arm-to-arm vaccination for a hundred years, and it was eventually outlawed in 1898. So for a hundred years, they would take it from one person’s arm to another person’s arm, and that’s how they vaccinated people. So it’s not this like, oh, I took it from the cow and we, you know, just kind of like these lovely pictures that they show when they show Edward Jenner doing these kinds of things, but it was quite a harsh type of thing to do. And by the end of the 1800s, they discovered, gee, you know, we’re looking at our microscope, and there’s all sorts of bacteria here and fungus. And back when they first started, they just called it a vaccine virus. And that they would use this vaccine virus to protect you from smallpox, which, of course, it never really worked. But um, uh, it was a harsh combination of all these different microbes and blood, and you would smear that into somebody’s arm, and if it, you know, depending on the skill of the practitioner, if you went too deep, you would get more of that stuff into your blood supply. So it’s not surprising that you would get all sorts of different conditions. Uh, um, the surplus was a horrible skin disease that would start from that, or tuberculosis was greatly tied to this kind of thing. And so you had all these different things, sepsis, which is not a big surprise. So, uh, people suffered and died or were, you know, deformed or crippled for life. And but this is kind of what vaccination is based on. And you know, originally called cowpoxing, they had to, you know, let’s make it fancy. We’ll take the word for cow, change it to Latin, which is “vaccina.” Now it’s vaccination. So it sounds more official, sounds more medical, right? So but uh, the whole thing has been kind of, uh, well, insane, really.
Richie Brown: So from the beginning, yeah, you’ve got an excellent quote in your book there. I’ll just read it out: “Those who have had to take detailed notice of the immunization accidents of the past few years know that to get to the truth of what really went wrong generally calls for the resources of something like the Secret Service.”
Roman: Right, right, definitely feeling that after 2021.
Richie Brown: Yeah, it’s, you know, there have been really smart doctors over the years. Dr. Creighton, he was tasked with writing an article in the Encyclopedia Britannica in the 1880s. And he didn’t just say, “Oh, okay, let me just put down the talking points into the article.” Instead, he did some research because he was a researcher. He had written books on the history of Britain. So he’s a smart guy. He basically lived in the library. And so he looked into it, and he wrote a rather not complimentary article in the Encyclopedia Britannica in 1888. And in there, he exposed all sorts of negatives of vaccination. And uh, he ended up writing two books on it, one on Jenner and one on syphilis. And uh, those books were, you know, not too kind to Edward Jenner and everything that went on. But he did the research. He was a smart guy, but didn’t really seem to matter. Well, it did matter because uh, vaccinations started to fall out of favor by the end of the 1800s and uh, basically plummeted. So by the, you know, mid-1900s, vaccination was no longer being used for smallpox. Um, but uh, he ended up, you know, just kind of forgotten in history, and he, I think he just was, you know, left on the side and ended up a poor guy. You know, he didn’t succeed financially, but he did the right thing. So you know, you don’t always end it; doesn’t always end very well for you if you go against the herd. That is something that occurs again and again in your book, isn’t it?
Roman: Mhm. Yeah, anybody that went against it, they would, you know, suffer the consequences of it or at least just be ignored. Even in 1805, um, uh, Dr. Rowley, he wrote a scathing book, uh, “Smallpox No Security Against,” uh, I mean, “Vaccination No Security Oh Kyle Pox No Security Against Smallpox,” um, and he was very clear about it. It’s like it’s not working. But you know, because Edward Jenner had claimed that it was perfectly safe and that it would protect you for life. Of course, he had no basis for that. He just simply made it up. He may have believed it. I have no idea what was in his mind, but um, there was no way he could actually say that. He did a smattering of cases, and because actually, because of the way they tested it, a lot of these early doctors believed it. And the reason they fell for it, and you know, they just tricked themselves. They had a new kind of uh inoculation that started in the late 1700s. Uh, was called Suttonian vaccination. The original one is you cut yourself pretty deep. You took the pus from somebody who had smallpox, and there was a you had to take it out of the out of the nodules or the pustules at a certain time to make sure it had this, you know, kind of pus in it, right, then you would take that and you put it into the person’s arm, and they were supposed to get sick. They were supposed to get smallpox, but you were supposed to treat them and heal them so they would be immune, right. Um, instead, Sutton decided, well, I’m just going to take that fluid out earlier, which was just clear fluid, apparently didn’t have much of anything in it, and so a little bit shallower cuts, and then you put it in. So people who got this particular uh inoculation didn’t really get sick. They might have a couple bumps, maybe a little fever or something, but they didn’t really get sick, and it was very, very popular because well, you didn’t get sick. And inoculators at the time said, well, this is not real inoculation. This is this is this is horrible. This is this is quackery. But uh, it caught on, and that’s the way inoculation continued. So what by the time we got to Jenner’s time, the way they wanted to test to see if vaccination worked, they would do the same inoculation to see if they could make you get smallpox, which it wouldn’t make you get smallpox anyway because it was this this kind of different way of doing things. So you weren’t like really getting testing it against smallpox. And so um, you know, Dr. Creighton noticed this in the 1890s, like you know, how do, how do they let this go through? It’s not logical, right, but it did. And that started the whole craze because now they had a new thing. And you have to keep in mind during this time, in the 1600s into the 1700s, they were using like blood of white puppy dogs. They were using all sorts of different things, human dried human flesh, uh, old man’s urine, um, wolf guts, all these things like witchcraft. These are things that were the medical men were using. They were also using things like bleeding and the hot regimen, which where they would put you in a room and cover you with blankets, no fresh air, no fresh water. And they would give you toxic uh metal type-based medications like calomel, which is mercury, arsenic, strychnine. So you’re stuck in a hot room. The idea is you’re going to sweat it out, right, but that didn’t really work out too well. A lot of people just died from that treatment. So what’s interesting to go back into the late 1600s, 1680s, uh, Thomas Sydenham, which is known as the English Hippocrates, the father of English medicine, noticed that well, this hot regimen is not really a good idea because he saw the poor people who didn’t get that, they seem to get through smallpox. So he started not doing that, and he got tremendous success, and he ended up uh talking with a Dr. Cole, and Dr. Cole is like, “Oh yeah, I’m doing the same thing now.” And smallpox is easily cured as long as we don’t do these dumb things, right, so as long as we’re, well, they were still doing the bleeding part, but they got rid of the hot regimen. They were doing cold regimen, and they weren’t doing these um various toxic medications, and people got through smallpox fairly easily. And Sydenham was like, “Well, it’s one of the slight diseases, and we don’t have to worry about it anymore.” So um, it’s kind of interesting because we often think of smallpox because you always see the pictures and they’re all filled with pustules, but part of the reason people were dying from these diseases was because of their living conditions and then these um ridiculous, well, they didn’t think they were ridiculous at the time, but these ridiculous medical practices like bleeding, the hot regimen, and these toxic medications. So when you stop doing those things, there wasn’t really a problem.
Richie Brown: Yeah, exactly. You mentioned in your book like uh, the first bunch of your book is dedicated to the living conditions of like um, the 19th and 18th century. You’ve got um, a good passage here: “Instead, imagine a world where workplaces had no health, safety, or minimum wage laws. The 1800s was a century when people put in 12 to 16 hours a day at the most tedious, menial labor. Imagine bands of children roaming the streets out of control because their parents were laboring days. Children were also involved in dangerous and demoralizing work. Picture the city of New York surrounded by, not by suburbs by rings, but by rings of smoldering garbage dumps and shanty towns, cities where hogs, horses, and dogs and their refugees were commonplace in the streets. Many infectious diseases were rampant throughout the world, particularly in the larger cities. This is not a description of the third world, but a large portion of what the United States and other civilized western countries used to be only a century or so ago.” I think a lot of people have forgotten that like how bad conditions were during that period.
Roman: Yeah, when I first started this and I did my first charts, and we saw that or I saw that the levels of uh death had declined by nearly 100% for every infectious disease, I was like, well, why is that? And then when I started reading the history, you know, actually looking at old history books, not just the, I never used um, more recent uh books from the mid to later uh 1900s. So I’m reading this stuff, and it’s like, wow, the conditions there were awful. So you had uh, no really no uh sanitation. So when you went to the bathroom, it went out the window, went into your water supply. Uh, all the industries were in the cities. So the tanners and all these different industries dumped their um waste into the water supply. So your water supplies, excuse me, was uh polluted. So it was a big industrial toilet. So you have that, uh, the living conditions were crowded and jammed with huge numbers of people, the poor, the miserable poor in London in the mid-1800s. There were hundreds of thousands of people in East London. There were on the what we used to call the ragged edge of misery. They were just barely surviving. The food supply was awful because there’s no refrigeration. And so you would get what you get right, and uh, a lot of it was rotten food, diseased food, uh, poor nutrition food. And then you had coal. Coal was being burned for heating. So you had all the smoke and smog going up into the air and settling back down. The London fog wasn’t fog like you know, nice fluffy clouds. It was filled with all these particulates. So now you’re breathing in all that stuff. So not only you in a giant toilet with horrible rotting food, you’re also in a chimney, living like that. And then you also worked uh, 12, 16, 18 hours a day, uh, which could be seasonal. So women often turned to prostitution. Uh, children had to work as young as four years old, uh, in mines and factories. So you’re overworked. Um, and when something goes wrong, you have nobody to rely on. Uh, so children ended up being, you know, on the streets by themselves. And so you put all these things together, and people would be dropping like flies, and they were. And so you had every, and then you had these, I’m sorry, but you had all these uh, you know, bizarre medical notions. So if you did get sick, you would get these things that would often like result uh in a poor outcome. So you had that on top of it, and vaccination was driving tuberculosis. So you put all these together, you know, it’s not a good situation. And they didn’t really recognize this really till the mid-1800s and really started taking action around 1875, and that’s when we started having a big transformation. Um, but uh, yeah, life back then was not what I used to think. I always pictured, you know, because you watch movies. I love movies. So you watch the older movies, like the black and white movies, and even the colored ones, and everybody’s in nice, you know, nice suits and parasols and nice carriages going through the cities, and it’s like, oh, wow, that was a lovely time, you know. But the horses were also pooping in the streets. Those were the elites. Those were the wealthy people. Most people did not even remotely live like that. They lived from day to day, trying to just survive.
Richie Brown: Absolutely. Yeah. You’ve got another um, you got a report there. I managed to pick up on archive.org. Uh, it was like a living conditions in London, and like people were living with like, if a sibling died in the family, sometimes a dead body would just be rotten in the house, and they’d be living like 13 people to like a two-bed house kind of thing.
Roman: Yeah, sure, sure, sure. And you know, remember, there’s no toilets to start with. They had outhouses, um privies out in the streets where people would share those, and of course, that just went splash splash splash down down in the ground. Um, and then a lot of times, the sewage was actually in the bottom of the houses and dwellings where the poor lived. You would, it would be like jammed up at the top like jammed with people, and then the middle part would just you would there would be drawings of people all despondent just jam people in there, and then there was places in the basement. In the basement with the sewage and the rats and all sorts of insects, cockroaches, people lived there. That was their basement dwelling. Well, I wouldn’t even call it, you know, it’s worse than a dungeon. So if you live like that, just physically, you’re going to suffer. And then morally, just the psychological impacts of living like this from day to day. It’s no wonder people died in their teens and early 20s now, just by being destroyed from all these, you know, this environment.
Richie Brown: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I think it’s plumbing that brought us out of that, not vaccines on your smallpox box thing. I’ve got a quote here from um, Bashamp or Pasta. If you’ve read that book, it’s quite an excellent one. It’s written in I think 1932, and it’s um examining the fight between pasta and bashamp.
Roman: Okay, yeah.
Richie Brown: And they’re talking about the um compulsory vaccination of smallpox, and they say, “The vaccination inquiry of London, England, says that in Brazil, where they have rigid compulsory vaccination laws and most energetic compulsion, the death rate from smallpox per 100,000 in Rio de Janeiro from 1913 to 1922, a 10-year period, was over 600 times as high as that of London, where opposition is strong and the exemption lords are widely used. If these are only accidents, as the doctors undoubtedly will claim, they at least prove that vaccines are useless. But my contention is that the use of animal pus injections is the cause of the higher figures.”
Roman: So yeah, very similar to your…
Richie Brown: Right, right. And as they started implementing these societal changes, what took decades, right? So labor laws, cleaning up these miserable living conditions, uh, electricity, great invention ever, which we kind of take for granted as we are right now, right, we’re using electricity. Uh, that came in. So that’s replacing um, you know, you got lighting, you got better, less use of coal, you have refrigeration, first the icebox and refrigeration, so you got better quality food, and then these other inventions coming in at the same time, right, like the car replacing the horses, so you don’t have you know meters of horseshit in the streets. So all these things are coming in and really there was an act in England in 1875, the public health act, and after that point, every infection, this disease, measles, whooping cough, scarlet fever, tuberculosis, uh, started to decline. And then there was the big pushback against vaccination because in 1871, 1873, there was a big outbreak with smallpox, and despite vaccination being you know near 100%, it was just rampant. So it didn’t work, and people noticed that, and they noticed that, gee, their family members were injured or killed. So in 1885, Leicester fought against it, and they won, the town of Leicester, England, and they said, “No, we’re not doing this anymore.” And their vaccination rates plummeted. And uh, you know, the medical establishment said, “Well, you’re all going to die.” Well, too bad for you. You’re stupid, but you’re going to learn a lesson. Well, that never happened. And then so their vaccination rates stayed low. Smallpox deaths declined, but so did every other infectious disease because you have all these things happening at the same time. And then uh, vaccination rates started to decline in all of England because they had a conscientious clause that was put in place. And so you have vaccination rates going down, smallpox deaths going down, typhoid fever, everything’s going down at the same time. And so you would think, gee, vaccination rates are going down, so we’re all going to, we’re all going to get smallpox. Well, that never happened because it had nothing to do with it. And uh, as vaccination rates decline, that fed back into less tuberculosis, tuberculosis, less smallpox. Yeah. The whole thing was just a sham from the beginning. So as everything starts declining in lethality by the 1950s and 1960s, infectious disease was not a problem. It just wasn’t a problem. There was enough people that wrote about it that said, well, wow, okay, the public health movement has fixed the problem. We can expect that all these infectious disease deaths will one day be a thing of the past. We don’t have to worry about them. But now here we are.
Richie Brown: So yeah, it’s um, when you start studying the history of it, you can see why they’ve used it as a mechanism for control, really can’t you, um, well so yeah, so it was fading away. Um, and there was enough people that were aware of it. There were doctors, it was a public health movement and natural doctors that were you know advocating for the things that actually worked, which was sunshine, fresh water, um, you know, these types of things, sanitation, sanitary way of living, they called it, right, and that continued into the early 1900s. And there was people that advocated all that, and uh, but uh, there was people that wanted to go the other way. So they eventually replaced Dr. Creighton’s article in the encyclopedia, encyclopedia of Britannica in the 1920s, and they got rid of vaccination and they changed it to vaccine therapies, and the vaccine therapies was barely mentioned, vaccination certainly got rid of all of Creighton’s criticisms and said, “Oh, we’re gonna have a whole new bunch of different therapies that we’re going to be able to use, and we’re gonna all be happier with all these different new therapies coming up.” And they came up with different therapies, vaccines for acne, vaccines for like lots of stuff that you know eventually just went away. So very similar to what they’re doing with mRNA vaccines now. Well, quote unquote vaccines, just just more dumb. So and uh, they came up with a scarlet fever vaccine, but that was particularly deadly. So that never caught on. Um, but the big killers, the bigger killers, scarlet fever and tuberculosis, they were the big killers, and pneumonia. They went to basically zero without any of these vaccines. They didn’t have a vaccine. We don’t have a vaccine on the schedule for that. And the smaller uh ones, whooping cough and measles, they developed vaccines for that and we’re kind of stuck with those even though they weren’t the big killers, and their death rate had declined by 98 to 100% before there were vaccines, which the all the charts clearly show.
Richie Brown: So your charts are incredible. The first time I saw those, it really blew me away.
Roman: Yeah, me too. I mean, I, I had no idea, and I have to credit Neil Miller. Um, he had a little, so I was listening to uh, uh, this program called Gary Null out of New York City, and uh, and I was listening to for health-related reasons, and I had a kind of a health awakening, realizing my American diet was horrible. Anyway, so I’m listening to this guy, and he had to have people on about um different topics, a lot of different topics, a really smart guy, and uh, one of you know, sometimes you had people about vaccination, and they would talk about neurological damage for vaccines, like oh, that sounds bad, you know, I had, I had had kids on the way, or or just there, and I thought, gee, I’m a little nervous about this vaccine thing now. And so I picked up a couple books. I don’t remember what the other books were, but um, one of them was just this little green booklet by Neil Miller, and uh, I flipped to, you know, I flipped through it, and there was a chart saying um, death rates for for measles had declined by 95% before there was a vaccine. And I thought the guy was crazy. Wow. Because I didn’t think it was true. I was like, that can’t be true. That’s that’s crazy. And I just basically threw it on my coffee table and ignored the guy. But then something kept on nagging me. So I went to a local library, and I found on the third almanac deaths from measles every 10 years. And I, I took out a piece of graph paper and charted it. I was like, “Huh, that’s basically right.” And I just sat there for a long time. It just, I couldn’t believe it. I don’t even know why I couldn’t believe it. I don’t know where this this idea was implanted in my head, but I just couldn’t believe it. And then I thought to myself, well, maybe the almanac’s wrong. I, I was like, I still couldn’t believe it. So I decided to go uh, to a local medical library. I’d never been there before. Uh, Yale Medical. And uh, I came in, “Can I can I use your, I’m here to use your library?” And the guy gave me, I said, “Okay, sign here.” I was like, “Oh, that was easy.” And I went in there, and I found these uh, big tall olive green books called US Vital Statistics. I said, “Well, it’s probably in here because I’m an engineer by you know training. So well, that’s probably where the data is. Let me go get it.” And I photocopied it. I think I had to go back once or twice to get all the dates because they were distributed across all these books. And I went back, put them on my spreadsheet, and uh, hit chart. Boom. And there’s down to down by 98% before they came out with the vaccine in 1963. I’m like, wow. I was like, I never heard of this. Yeah, it’s crazy.
Richie Brown: You want to bring a couple of the um, couple of the graphs just, yeah, we can do that. That’ll be fun. Uh, where’ it go? There we go. Oh, there we go. Um, how we how are we looking? Yeah, good. So we’ll just skip ahead. Um, so here’s, let’s just go, I think we’ll just go ahead here somewhere. Sorry, I’m jumping around. All right, so this is the chart that I first created. Well, actually, it starts in 1900. So that’s the chart. Anyway, so there’s the vaccine introduced in 1963. We can see the death rate is quite high, and then it just goes down, down. And that’s when they came out with the vaccine, 1963, which was a killed measles virus vaccine, which was quite quite problematic, and so they had to reformulate and reintroduce a new vaccine in 1967. But um, they all, we’ll just go from the beginning here. So this is this makes the social media rounds showing how vaccines work, and there’s problems with this social media post, right? The chart provides no context. It begins in 1939, so it doesn’t show you the full data set. Uh, it’s on a logarithmic chart, so it makes it look like, gee, you know, look at this big plummet down here. Okay. Uh, it’s only looking at US social media posts pushing vaccines. I take it.
Richie Brown: I’m sorry, what? I take it it’s a social media post pro-vaccine?
Roman: Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So you know, there’s all these problems with it. And one of the first things is measles was not a big threat in 1962. So we have all these other things like syphilis, how many deaths from tuberculosis, and all these other things. Measles was 0.22% of deaths. So you still had a problem, but it wasn’t like the big death plague that you might think based on media reports now, right? So it was quite low. Uh, again, 1963, their chart starts in 1939 when most of the problem was already tackled. If you started in 1900, that chart wouldn’t be very impressive. Interesting. They also show it in a logarithmic chart, which magnifies the tail end of things. Right, so now it looks like, wow, look at that big plummet in 1963, right? But that is really this chart when most of the problem was already taken care of. There’s really not much of a change because now you’re in the like very small in the small uh area. Um, and then if you look at data from England, that has data starting in 1838 because the US um national data starts in 1900, and you see deaths from measles was quite high, as you might imagine with the conditions that we talked about, and then around 1885, it starts to decline. They introduced the vaccine in 1968 in England, and by that time, it’s down 99.9 something percent, 100% down. Yeah, incredible. So they don’t, when they’re trying to show you data, they’re not showing you the full picture. They show you this distorted view. And then if you look at the data kind of magnified in, you’re zooming in near the tail end. So this is for the US. You can see the red line is the trend line. There’s really not much of an impact on the vaccine if you just follow the trend line. You can say, well, yeah, after ’67, there’s kind of a like an impact. And then if you look at England, same thing. So we’re at the very end of measles being a problem. The trend line shows like no real impact by the vaccine. I mean, data is the data, right? And I, when I first started looking at this, I couldn’t accept it either. It was like, I understand why people go, well, that can’t be true, because that’s what I did, you know, it’s like, doesn’t make it’s like just hit you like this can’t be true. Uh, and then there’s items from medical journals. Here’s from 1959, just you know, before a few years before the vaccine, and this is from the British Medical Journal. This, they’re talking about over 10 years. There’s very few complications from measles. Measles is just a mild ailment. We didn’t do anything special. No problem. Right. Uh, and this is from uh, 1981. Whooping cough and measles are no longer important causes of death. And he’s arguing against universal vaccination because why why are we doing this? Yeah, I’ve got from Virus Mania here. It goes for example, in 2008, the journal European Surveillance reported that in the Czech Republic, although a program for vaccination against measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) had been started in 1987, thousands of people contracted measles in 2002, and even more so in 2005. The highest number of cases was in the group of 15 to 19-year-olds, almost 90% of whom had been vaccinated twice. Yeah, you find this all the time. You know, happens all the time when they actually look look at stuff. They’re like, “Oh, it’s not, it’s not magical after all.” Um, and this is uh, uh, Langmuir. He was like the the father of um, um, basically um, epidemiological medicine, right? It says right there. And eventually became the CDC. And he was, he knew it was a self-limiting infection of short duration, moderate severity, and low fatality. He, this is actually his quote. And he was like, why are you trying to eliminate measles? Because we can do it. That’s all. You know, was it necessary? No. He just decided it was something he wanted to do.
